Zarel uploaded file unifycommanders.patch (1.6 KiB)

Kreuvf commented

Currently, units assigned to a commander have effective experience levels
of:

MAX(level, commanderLevel+1) in skirmish, and

MAX(level, commanderLevel) in campaign

I'd like to change these both to:

MAX(level+1, commanderLevel)

This ensures that there's always a reason to attach a unit to a commander, without otherwise changing balance.
Okay.

I'm also planning on making commanders gain levels twice as fast in campaign (so they match current MP). That makes them take 1024 experience to reach hero status (compare 512 for a normal unit, 1024 for an MP commander, and 2048 for a current campaign commander).
No, bad idea. In campaign, when constantly recycling your commanders, their rank would increase too fast. And the game advises you to use commanders from the moment they become available.

Previously, hero commanders were practically never seen, so this should alleviate that somewhat.
Yeah, not everybody's a hero after all~ That's not an argument. There must be some stuff in the game that's hard to achieve.

Barring objections, I'll be committing this in a few days (to 2.3, too - it's a balance change, and if you read it, there's nothing in there that can break anything, and it fixes a few bugs relating to commanders).
Sure? What happens with loaded save-games? ;X And where's the self-discipline again? We are about to release something like a release candidate and it's not a bug you are trying to fix here.

P.S.: I hate trac.

Zarel commented

Replying to Warzone2100/old-trac-import#1612 (comment:1):

No, bad idea. In campaign, when constantly recycling your commanders, their rank would increase too fast. And the game advises you to use commanders from the moment they become available.

What do you mean? Their rank would increase at exactly the same rate as before.

Yeah, not everybody's a hero after all~ That's not an argument. There must be some stuff in the game that's hard to achieve.

/shrug/ You get free hero units mid-gamma, anyway; it's not that big of a deal.

Sure? What happens with loaded save-games? ;X

Loaded save-games get updated unit levels. Unit level is never saved - it's always calculated on-the-fly based on the unit experience.

And where's the self-discipline again? We are about to release something like a release candidate and it's not a bug you are trying to fix here.

Read the patch (or even the patch summary). It fixes a bug - commanders would often jump up and down levels in campaign, and unifying commander levels stops that. And it's not like I'm adding a feature here, I'm just removing the feature that commanders had different experience levels in campaign and skirmish, since it was being buggy. Hardly the first time we've done that in 2.3.

(We've agreed that removing features is safer that adding new code, right? And if, in this case, it should be done anyway, then why not?)

You can argue whether or not they should be unified into campaign progression or skirmish progression, but either way, we need to unify them. :|

Zarel changed status from new to accepted

Zarel changed owner from `` to Zarel

Kreuvf commented

Replying to Warzone2100/old-trac-import#1612 (comment:2):

Replying to Warzone2100/old-trac-import#1612 (comment:1):

No, bad idea. In campaign, when constantly recycling your commanders, their rank would increase too fast. And the game advises you to use commanders from the moment they become available.

What do you mean? Their rank would increase at exactly the same rate as before.
Cannot be true according to

Replying to [#1612 Zarel]:

I'm also planning on making commanders gain levels twice as fast in campaign (so they match current MP). That makes them take 1024 experience to reach hero status (compare 512 for a normal unit, 1024 for an MP commander, and 2048 for a current campaign commander).
So either your description here in the ticket is wrong or your claim that they would increase in rank at the same rate as before.

Replying to [comment: 2 Zarel]

/shrug/ You get free hero units mid-gamma, anyway; it's not that big of a deal.
Replying to [#1612 Zarel]:
Previously, hero commanders were practically never seen, so this should alleviate that somewhat.
To me this seems like you are contradicting yourself. Either you get them anyway mid-gamma (then it won't matter that they are hard to reach before) or they are "practically never seen", which would mean that practically nobody ever reaches mid-gamma.

Why do we need to unify skirmish commanders and campaign commanders? Everybody will understand that campaign takes more time and you would reach higher levels too fast with skirmish progression, while in skirmish you usually are limited to minutes to hours of gaming.

Per commented

I see no need to change this now for 2.3.0. As for a 'bug', I see nothing in the description about that. Can you elaborate on how this patch fixes any bug?

Zarel commented

Replying to Warzone2100/old-trac-import#1612 (comment:4):

Cannot be true according to [#1612 Zarel]
So either your description here in the ticket is wrong or your claim that they would increase in rank at the same rate as before.

They get an extra level at 16 kills. They gain further levels at the same rate as before. I admit, it's a bit of a semantic difference.

To me this seems like you are contradicting yourself. Either you get them anyway mid-gamma (then it won't matter that they are hard to reach before) or they are "practically never seen", which would mean that practically nobody ever reaches mid-gamma.

By "practically never seen", I mean that the free units are one of the exceptions that merit the term "practically" instead of "always". Perhaps a word like "nearly" would be better; I was using the term "practically" a bit too colloquially for an international audience.

Why do we need to unify skirmish commanders and campaign commanders? Everybody will understand that campaign takes more time and you would reach higher levels too fast with skirmish progression, while in skirmish you usually are limited to minutes to hours of gaming.

Replying to Warzone2100/old-trac-import#1612 (comment:5):

I see no need to change this now for 2.3.0. As for a 'bug', I see nothing in the description about that. Can you elaborate on how this patch fixes any bug?

Last few words of the description: "and it fixes a few bugs relating to commanders."

Last few words of my previous posts: "It fixes a bug - commanders would often jump up and down levels in campaign, and unifying commander levels stops that. And it's not like I'm adding a feature here, I'm just removing the feature that commanders had different experience levels in campaign and skirmish, since it was being buggy. Hardly the first time we've done that in 2.3."

Reading comprehension. :/

To be more detailed in "commanders would often jump up and down levels in campaign":

My impression is that commanders used campaign level calculations to calculate its unit limit in the Commanders screen, but skirmish level calculations to calculate its unit limit when you selected a certain number of units and clicked on it (So you could get commanders with 8/6 assigned).

I haven't managed to find the exact conditions in which cmdGetDroidMultiExpBoost will return an incorrect value, but I have traced the problem to that function, and know that getting rid of it as I have done will fix it.

So, barring objections that do not contain evidence that the objector hasn't read what I have written, I am still planning on committing this bugfix that does nothing but remove a buggy feature.

Zarel commented

[9887] has a typo in the commit message - the patch was only committed to trunk.

On Buggy's advice:

Stick it in trunk, and we can do some quick playing around with it.

So take it up with him; I'm tired of being blamed for trying to improve the game.

Per commented

"Reading comprehension", eh. I did read all your wrote, but you do not get to claim "bug" without explaining what the bug is, and you do not get to claim to have fixed it without explaining how (since it is not obvious from the patch). Is it really so hard to be up front about what you are trying to do? It would save you a lot of work and complaining.

Zarel commented

So is that an objection or not?

Apologies for being cranky; I've had a rough week.

Zarel commented

Some other stuff:

For a commander's level to ever provide any sort of bonus, in the current system, it takes 5 units assigned. For a commander's level to consistently provide any sort of bonus, it takes 8 units assigned.

With these changes, that doesn't change. If we make the MAX(level+1, commanderLevel) change but not the "halve experience requirements" change, however, it will change to 9 units assigned for ever having a bonus, and 16 units assigned for consistently having a bonus. I think that's a bit too much, and is why I don't want to stay with the campaign progression.

Zarel changed status from accepted to closed

Zarel set resolution to fixed

Zarel commented

(In [9943]) Fix bug #1612 - ignore turnOffMultiMsg for sending droid deaths from HP loss, since they aren't handled by the caller of turnOffMultiMsg.

Zarel commented

(In [9944]) 2.3: Fix bug #1612 - ignore turnOffMultiMsg for sending droid deaths from HP loss, since they aren't handled by the caller of turnOffMultiMsg.

Git SVN Gateway <gateway@...> commented

(In Warzone2100/warzone2100@9dbc31a) Fix bug #1612 - ignore turnOffMultiMsg for sending droid deaths from HP loss, since they aren't handled by the caller of turnOffMultiMsg.

git-svn-id: https://warzone2100.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/warzone2100/trunk@9943 4a71c877-e1ca-e34f-864e-861f7616d084